A TOS and AOS comparison
Nov. 6th, 2012 03:39 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sarnath posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
startrekI've been thinking about the themes of Star Trek XI, and why it means the sequel won't be (or shouldn't be, at least) about Khan.
The themes are easy to see, of course; ST XI is not a subtle film. (Aside from a couple complaints, I love it, though; a film doesn't have to be subtle to be good. Just to be clear!) There's the main theme of vengeance and the havoc it can wreak, the theme of births and new beginnings, and then the twin lines of coming of age for Spock and Kirk. Simple, yet effective.
(I think there's also an argument to be made for the revenge theme being reflected in how Kirk's and Spock's rebellions are a sort of revenge on their mother (for Kirk) and father (for Spock) in the coming of age themes, but I won't expand on it this time.)
But why won't Abrams make a Khan film? Because he's essentially already done so.
Nero and Khan
Khan is obsessed with thoughts of taking revenge on Kirk because he blames Kirk for what became of "his" planet, as well as the death of his wife.
To have his revenge, he and his loyal followers steal a ship and a the powerful Genesis Device, something that was originally created to save planets, but can also be used as a devastating weapon. They then leave Kirk marooned at an uninhabited planet to observe how everything he loves is destroyed.
Khan is driven only by his obsession, which ultimately leads to his defeat (to emphasise this the director even had him quoting Moby Dick, as well as including a copy of the book in the film itself). At the very end, it's all he thinks of, and what leads to his defeat.
Then there's Nero.
Now, Nero is also obsessed with thoughts of revenge because of the fate of his planet and death of his wife. His history is with Spock, but I think the parallel is very clear.
He has a ship, which he modifies, and then steals the Red Matter, something that was originally created to save a planet but can also be a devastating weapon. He leaves (old) Spock on an uninhabited planet to observe how everything he loves is destroyed.
Nero is driven only by his obsession, which ultimately leads to his defeat. It's what makes him refuse mercy in the end.
There are several other parallels and references to TWoK in ST XI which I think are interesting, like for example Ceti eels vs. Centaurian slugs, the Kobayashi Maru test, the malfunctioning of the warp core, the barely escaping a large space anomaly at the end (the results of the Genesis Device vs. The results of the Red Matter), the militaristic aestheticism in the red uniforms. Also, the apple eating!
While TWoK has a theme of growing old and death, though, ST XI inverted the the theme into beginnings and births. The births of Kirk and Spock, the bridge crew as a group, the Enterprise herself, and the new universe that was created because of Nero.
Kirk and Spock
This part was very different from TWoK, because, again, beginning rather than an end. Also, it's something we never got to see in TOS; when the series start, they've already known each other for a while even though they're not as close as they'll later become, and they're older and more experienced. But I think it's interesting, and part of the film's theme, so I'm going to talk a little bit about it.
The twin lines of Kirk's and Spock's stories (despite not taking place at the same time - Spock is actually three years older than Kirk) is the second major theme of the film I think, or at least intimately intertwined with the births and beginnings theme, and have several pivotal points that are emphasised by the direction and cutting of the film.
Their childhoods: Not fitting in, rebelling through for their cultures unacceptable actions of violence (car over cliff, beatdown of classmates).
Adolescence: Rebelling against the expectations on them through not joining Starfleet (in the case of Kirk) and not joining the Vulcan Science Academy (Spock).
Turning point: A revelation from a father figure. Kirk's is at the beginning, being reached by Pike and finally joining up with Starfleet. Spock's is further in, when he's lost his planet and mother and it's finally revealed that Sarek loved Amanda and didn't marry her out of duty; in short, that emotions aren't actually anathema to being Vulcan, but can be an intrinsic part of it.
Resolution: I think the whole part where Kirk and Spock work together to defeat Nero is a partway resolution. It's a representation of how they complete each other, but not only that; it's about how they've found a place in the universe where they really fit. It's also an acknowledgement of each other, the start of a deeply trusting relationship. It's where they for the first time put their lives in each other's hands. They have both also at this point suffered a great loss that changed the course of their lives in very significant ways.
Aftermath: Acceptance. For kirk, from Starfleet, and for Spock, from himself. I do think for both it's only the beginning, though; they're both still wounded by their pasts in both similar and different ways (but that's another piece of meta).
So yeah, just a few thoughts, not very detailed. But it's something I've been considering for a while.
Crossposted to my own DW.
Edit: Wrote the Roman numerals in the wrong order. Tell me if I missed any.
The themes are easy to see, of course; ST XI is not a subtle film. (Aside from a couple complaints, I love it, though; a film doesn't have to be subtle to be good. Just to be clear!) There's the main theme of vengeance and the havoc it can wreak, the theme of births and new beginnings, and then the twin lines of coming of age for Spock and Kirk. Simple, yet effective.
(I think there's also an argument to be made for the revenge theme being reflected in how Kirk's and Spock's rebellions are a sort of revenge on their mother (for Kirk) and father (for Spock) in the coming of age themes, but I won't expand on it this time.)
But why won't Abrams make a Khan film? Because he's essentially already done so.
Khan is obsessed with thoughts of taking revenge on Kirk because he blames Kirk for what became of "his" planet, as well as the death of his wife.
To have his revenge, he and his loyal followers steal a ship and a the powerful Genesis Device, something that was originally created to save planets, but can also be used as a devastating weapon. They then leave Kirk marooned at an uninhabited planet to observe how everything he loves is destroyed.
Khan is driven only by his obsession, which ultimately leads to his defeat (to emphasise this the director even had him quoting Moby Dick, as well as including a copy of the book in the film itself). At the very end, it's all he thinks of, and what leads to his defeat.
Then there's Nero.
Now, Nero is also obsessed with thoughts of revenge because of the fate of his planet and death of his wife. His history is with Spock, but I think the parallel is very clear.
He has a ship, which he modifies, and then steals the Red Matter, something that was originally created to save a planet but can also be a devastating weapon. He leaves (old) Spock on an uninhabited planet to observe how everything he loves is destroyed.
Nero is driven only by his obsession, which ultimately leads to his defeat. It's what makes him refuse mercy in the end.
There are several other parallels and references to TWoK in ST XI which I think are interesting, like for example Ceti eels vs. Centaurian slugs, the Kobayashi Maru test, the malfunctioning of the warp core, the barely escaping a large space anomaly at the end (the results of the Genesis Device vs. The results of the Red Matter), the militaristic aestheticism in the red uniforms. Also, the apple eating!
While TWoK has a theme of growing old and death, though, ST XI inverted the the theme into beginnings and births. The births of Kirk and Spock, the bridge crew as a group, the Enterprise herself, and the new universe that was created because of Nero.
This part was very different from TWoK, because, again, beginning rather than an end. Also, it's something we never got to see in TOS; when the series start, they've already known each other for a while even though they're not as close as they'll later become, and they're older and more experienced. But I think it's interesting, and part of the film's theme, so I'm going to talk a little bit about it.
The twin lines of Kirk's and Spock's stories (despite not taking place at the same time - Spock is actually three years older than Kirk) is the second major theme of the film I think, or at least intimately intertwined with the births and beginnings theme, and have several pivotal points that are emphasised by the direction and cutting of the film.
Their childhoods: Not fitting in, rebelling through for their cultures unacceptable actions of violence (car over cliff, beatdown of classmates).
Adolescence: Rebelling against the expectations on them through not joining Starfleet (in the case of Kirk) and not joining the Vulcan Science Academy (Spock).
Turning point: A revelation from a father figure. Kirk's is at the beginning, being reached by Pike and finally joining up with Starfleet. Spock's is further in, when he's lost his planet and mother and it's finally revealed that Sarek loved Amanda and didn't marry her out of duty; in short, that emotions aren't actually anathema to being Vulcan, but can be an intrinsic part of it.
Resolution: I think the whole part where Kirk and Spock work together to defeat Nero is a partway resolution. It's a representation of how they complete each other, but not only that; it's about how they've found a place in the universe where they really fit. It's also an acknowledgement of each other, the start of a deeply trusting relationship. It's where they for the first time put their lives in each other's hands. They have both also at this point suffered a great loss that changed the course of their lives in very significant ways.
Aftermath: Acceptance. For kirk, from Starfleet, and for Spock, from himself. I do think for both it's only the beginning, though; they're both still wounded by their pasts in both similar and different ways (but that's another piece of meta).
So yeah, just a few thoughts, not very detailed. But it's something I've been considering for a while.
Crossposted to my own DW.
Edit: Wrote the Roman numerals in the wrong order. Tell me if I missed any.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-06 08:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-06 10:43 pm (UTC)(Love your icon!)
no subject
Date: 2012-11-07 06:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-07 07:05 pm (UTC)I'm going to take one, then! I promise to credit.^^
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Date: 2012-11-07 07:21 pm (UTC)Saavik is half-romulan--that's why her name is "Saavik" and not "T'Something," and also why she swears. In the books, she was the result of a Romulan genetics experiment. They wanted to get Vulcan telepathy for themselves, and one of several experiments they were doing (well, it was a rogue faction, not an officially approved Romulan action) involved capturing Vulcan science vessels and raping the crews to get hybrid babies. But the experiment was abandoned when Saavik was still an infant, so the hybrid children were thrown out into the desert to fend for themselves while the Romulans experimented on the Vulcans in other ways; then a Vulcan managed to escape the planet the experiments were happening on and get to the Federation before dying, and so the Romulans killed the Vulcans and left, leaving the hybrids behind. The Vulcans sent a ship to collect them (Spock was on that mission, and specifically the one who brought Saavik in). This story is told in the book The Pandora Principle, if you're curious.
Anyway, so her Romulan parent is still out there, but even if same Romulan faction was willing to conduct the same experiment, are there going to be any Vulcan science vessels floating around for them to capture, and would Saavik's Vulcan parent be on them, or would the Vulcans all be hanging around whatever new colony world, setting that up? I s'pose you could fudge the timeline and say that the experiment was already going, which I did in a fic called "Out of the Depths."
no subject
Date: 2012-11-07 07:56 pm (UTC)Well, since the books aren't considered canon, they might include her in future films in a way that may contradict the books but still keeps her characterisation? It seems like Abrams &co like to connect back to the original canon, and she was a pretty prominent presence in the second and third films, I thought.
Looking at Memory Alpha, apparently Saavik was to have been revealed as half Romulan in a deleted scene, and so was T'Pol (of Enterprise, which I haven't seen yet). I would really like to see more of either culture, to be honest!
I only usually read K/S (I'm a K/S OTP FOREVER! shipper, haha), but I kind of thought Spock and Saavik may have married in canon no matter what relationship Kirk and Spock could have had. Spock outlives humans by more than a hundred years, after all, and Vulcans needs their mates when they go into Pon Farr (and he seemed to like her, of course, heh).
I really liked your fic! An interesting alternative take on events, and I think you have a really good Spock voice.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-07 08:33 pm (UTC)For Vulcan stuff, you absolutely must read Spock's World, (again by Duane), which the writers of XI said in an interview they considered to be canon. Other great Trek novels about Vulcans include The Vulcan Adadamy Murders and its sequel The IDIC Epidemic, Vulcan's Glory (by D.C. Fontana herself!), and Sarek.
All of those books greatly shaped my view of Vulcans and Vulcan culture.
They actually filmed the scene where Saavik is revealed as half-Romulan, I saw a very low-quality clip of it once. It's just Kirk remarking to Spock how emotional she is for a Vulcan, and Spock pointing out that she's half-Romulan.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-07 08:48 pm (UTC)I've been thinking about reading some of the books, actually, I just haven't really had the time yet (only the reboot and part of TMP novelisations). And even if they aren't canon, I think they can still be sort of a potential canon.
the writers of XI said in an interview they considered [Spock's World] to be canon.
I heard that, but IIRC there are parts of the book that's contradicted by real canon? Though I haven't actually watched all of canon, so it's just what I've heard, haha. I haven't seen anything of Enterprise, just a couple of episodes of Deep Space 9 and Voyager, and I've forgotten most of Next Generation. I'm slowly working my way through it all now.
I did read the parts about Vulcan culture on The Vulcan Language Institute, which, despite the horrible site design, has some very interesting information and a lot of thorough research.
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Date: 2012-11-08 06:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-07 04:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-07 04:15 am (UTC)